the fact is they do negotiate higher time, their workers but that comes with a cost to the whole economy, making it less dynamic, less easy for businesses to hire more workers and at a time when we have 8% unemployment, that's not something that a lot of businesses can afford. >> now, a lot of those same union leaders say, you get what you pay for, and there are offering cut raitt salaries to workers who might appreciate the jobs, but in the end, aren't going to be very happy in those jobs. what do you think? >> i think overall people are gibbing to see that unions are out to help union worker but very often at the expense of nonunion works and that's where we're getting in trouble. the american public at large is overwhelmingly moving sort of -- public support is moving against unions, gallup found that 42% would like to see unions be less influential. they feel at if there are negotiations going on for union workers but they come at a cost for all workers, creating less opportunity for all workers and for the economy at large. what is the message. you say lab you wins every time. union